GREAT LAKES DSM

Coder_Tsi · Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:08 pm motor internals?

What kind of internals are in a 1g Dsm Stock? What are the best internals to buy? Best bang for your buck? May uprgrade my pistons and rods in the next year and need to know what I should get.

sbstar · Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:12 pm

What do you mean what kind of internals? Like what are they made out of? You will find a million different opinions on rod and piston combo's
Ross, J&E, Crower, Eagle, Groden, Wiseco, Manley, Carillo, Mahle, and the list goes on. Personally I want a good set of Crower rods and some wiseco 9:1 pistons since I'm trying to eke every little bit out of the 14b, the added compression will help me, on a bigger turbo its normally better to stick with lower compression.

Glowmunkey · Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:25 pm 1Gs rule and 2Gs drool

90-92 and some 93s are 6 bolt motors, with hardcore rods. Stock 6 bolt is good to 500+ whp. Pistons are 7.8 to one compression and thick as hell. 2Gs have very strong coated pistons and 8.5 to one compression. 2G lower ends can hold power, but the crank will walk and eventually destroy the bearings if you make most any power at all.

Evos use big ass rods and very strong pistons with 8.8 to one compression, also known to hold 500+ whp in stock form.

Best bet is bone stock 1G stuff, or 1G rods with 2G pistons. Lots of aftermarket companies make really good coated hyperute pistons in 7.8, 8.5, 8.8, etc. to one compression ratios and these pistons will go onto stock 1G rods without the machining you need to have done to make 2G pistons fit on the same rods. I'd use Wiseco (8.8 to 1) and stock rods, inexpensive and track proven.

Forged pistons are NOT needed unless you're making TONS of power and/or spraying lots of nitrous. Your average forged setup will not last as long before needing another rebuild due to the piston slap it will experience during cold starts. Forged pistons are for race cars, or people that do not mind frequent rebuilds. If your DSM isn't in the 10s, it's not a race car.

First step I'd take is check the compression on the motor. If it's good, don't build it, change the timing belt, remove the balance shafts and rip out all unneeded shit from under the hood. Then it's time to get crafty.

Glowmunkey · Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:27 pm

sbstar wrote: What do you mean what kind of internals? Like what are they made out of? You will find a million different opinions on rod and piston combo's
Ross, J&E, Crower, Eagle, Groden, Wiseco, Manley, Carillo, Mahle, and the list goes on. Personally I want a good set of Crower rods and some wiseco 9:1 pistons since I'm trying to eke every little bit out of the 14b, the added compression will help me, on a bigger turbo its normally better to stick with lower compression.

I disagree. Extra compression will help the bigger turbo spool faster. Lots of guys with FPgreens, Reds, 3065s, etc. go with 8.8 to 1 compression for street setups.

sbstar · Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:11 pm

You got me, but what I generally meant was that the 9.0:1 pistons are generally not recommended for the super high horsepower race cars :(

Coder_Tsi · Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:08 pm

Old motor..needs new pistons...Daily driver...Best setup....no more than 350whp? Whatrs the piston setup

Glowmunkey · Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:24 am 3 choices as I see it.

Stock 7.8s will be the cheapest.

Look around for 2G slugs, factor in machining.

Buy aftermarket like Wisecos, etc. inexpensive coated hyperute pistons... pick your compression ratio. Nothing forged.

Coder_Tsi · Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:48 am

What are stocks made of for the 1g? 2g?

gsdsm · Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:47 pm

ok this is brian on garys account here at the shop but i got my ross pistons and eagle rods for 400 bucks. so u just have to look for the deals man just like i told u last nite

sbstar · Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:54 pm

Did you get those used brian?

brian 5150 · Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:30 pm

what my pisonts and rods? yes i did theres a total of about 3000 miles on them between the 2

Glowmunkey · Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:10 pm

Coder_Tsi wrote: What are stocks made of for the 1g? 2g?

They're both hyperute, but the 2G slugs are coated, with what, I dunno honestly.

gsdsm · Sun Oct 15, 2006 1:56 am

Its supposed to ge some kind of graphite is what I was told. 8)

wishihadatalon · Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:16 pm Re: 1Gs rule and 2Gs drool

Glowmunkey wrote: 90-92 and some 93s are 6 bolt motors, with hardcore rods. Stock 6 bolt is good to 500+ whp. Pistons are 7.8 to one compression and thick as hell. 2Gs have very strong coated pistons and 8.5 to one compression. 2G lower ends can hold power, but the crank will walk and eventually destroy the bearings if you make most any power at all.

Evos use big ass rods and very strong pistons with 8.8 to one compression, also known to hold 500+ whp in stock form.

Best bet is bone stock 1G stuff, or 1G rods with 2G pistons. Lots of aftermarket companies make really good coated hyperute pistons in 7.8, 8.5, 8.8, etc. to one compression ratios and these pistons will go onto stock 1G rods without the machining you need to have done to make 2G pistons fit on the same rods. I'd use Wiseco (8.8 to 1) and stock rods, inexpensive and track proven.

Forged pistons are NOT needed unless you're making TONS of power and/or spraying lots of nitrous. Your average forged setup will not last as long before needing another rebuild due to the piston slap it will experience during cold starts. Forged pistons are for race cars, or people that do not mind frequent rebuilds. If your DSM isn't in the 10s, it's not a race car.

First step I'd take is check the compression on the motor. If it's good, don't build it, change the timing belt, remove the balance shafts and rip out all unneeded !@#$ from under the hood. Then it's time to get crafty.
All 1g motors had the same rods. Hence the 1g big rods name.

Having a stock motor that makes say 585whp (highest I have heard of) is cool to brag about but its not likely that you or me will make it. Pinging/knocking at that power lever would be very bad and would not last very long.

More compression will NOT spool a turbo faster (urban legend?) but will give you alot more off boost tq which is always nice. Lower compression will also give you the opportunity to run more boost safer and more boost will make more hp than compression.

If you are looking for 350hp a stock motor of either generation will do. If you want a little more off boost tq then get 2g pistons hung on 1g rods. I looked into this and at a local machine shop it was going to cost me $110 for all 4 hung and ready to be installed.

As for cold start piston slap, have you ever heard a wrx when its starts up in the morning? The slap is fairly loud.

GBurvill · Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:12 pm

I know alot of guys who go with the 2.4 litre setup, then throw in some wiseco's and whatnot. i have no idea what that job entailes tho.